Turning the Court? Really? Give me your thoughts...

[orange79]

i don't think im being arrogant by thinking it will be a success. arrogance involves me thinking highly of myself. i don't see how that correlates with my thinking that turning the court will be a success. that's an opinion that doesn't have to do anything with myself. that being said, suppose i somehow was being arrogant, you're guilty of the same thing for "arrogantly" assuming it will be a failure.

let's stick to the original point. do you really believe this will alienate donors and season ticket holders to the point of no return? that seems like a big overreeaction. however, i suppose there are people willing to fill their spots in those cush seats.

Do you really think it is so outrageous that 5% of the preferred A (not to mention other) donors wouldn't take at least some of their money for a year and donate it to, say, Maxwell or Newhouse, while letting the AD know exactly why? Do you think that absolutely won't happen?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yes I do. There will be backlash from this. You really won't know the full extent until next year when the next round of Orange Club donations are due. You will lose some season ticket holders, and there will be season ticket holders who reduce their donations to the absolute minimum. This has to be factored into the total cost of staging this event.

And if you think that Central New York is loaded with people/local businesses who are willing and able to make the minimum contributions required for the best preferred seats (not to mention people willing to donate thousands of dollars over and above the minimum), you would be wrong.

Your second point/paragraph is 100% spot on, even the bball fanbase as good as it has been and is, is also an aging fanbase. Alienating a portion of that older fan base with the monetary means to have preferred seats and donate would be a huge mistake as I can assure you there arent hundreds of young fans with tha kind of money waiting to step in.

 

[jgeorge322]

Do you really think it is so outrageous that 5% of the preferred A (not to mention other) donors wouldn't take at least some of their money for a year and donate it to, say, Maxwell or Newhouse, while letting the AD know exactly why? Do you think that absolutely won't happen?

i dont think it is outrageous to say that 5% of perferred A donors might reduce their contributions. i do think it is outrageous that people would do that.

 

[jgeorge322]

yes.

clearly you havnt been paying attention.

its an unwritten known.

and im not being snarky.

that is fine. until i see the numbers proving this, i won't take your word for it.

 

[DoctorBombay]

From my perspective, the parallels are striking between this "move the court" argument and the "ACCT to MSG"arguments going on here in Charlotte.
Yes, I know one is general to the conference, while the other is specific to SU, but consider:
There is a demographic here that absolutely HATES the idea of moving the ACCT "up North", and feel that the ACC has sold out to TV & the almighty dollar. They hate being "inconvenienced" and forced to spend more money to go to MSG, while the traditions they've built over many years in Greensboro, literally get trashed. They think its unfair that MSG is being forced down their throats, when Greensboro/ACCT has worked out just fine the way its been. There are those who say they've already bought tickets, made travel plans, gotten hotel rooms for what they thought would be an extended ACCT run in Greensboro w/ SU, Pitt, ND, and eventually, UL. "We've supported this conference and the ACCT for all these years, and we're being kicked to the curb for this newfangled idea...where's the loyalty in that"? And there's the faction that asks: "Whats so special about Cuse, Pitt, ND, and even MSG- why should we "honor" them in that way? They join the conference & we immediately bend over for them"? Sounds familiar, huh?

I agree & understand the concerns by those who say that this idea wasn't presented BEFORE they got their season tickets. There seems to be an implication that DG did something shady and on purpose, to try & bilk these folks and pull the old "bait & switch". That seems to be more a matter of perspective and I can't speak on that. I will say that we are at the beginning stages of this idea...I assume. Sight-lines and logistics will eventually have to be worked out, and my hope is that DG treats CTO, Jake, Bees, and the many other loyal supporters fairly...BEFORE this is "forced down their throats".
However, the one thread that binds these arguments is INEVITABILITY. This is going to happen, and not everyone will be happy about it. Conference realignment has wreaked havoc on college sports, and issues like these can be traced directly to this now changing world. I'm in the group that favors our embracing these changes- no matter how sloppy they are implemented, as some of them surely will be. Because in the end, change is here- whether its in moving the ACCT, or moving the Dome court for big games against our elite ACC foes. Its inevitable.

 

[AZOrange]

Yes I do. There will be backlash from this. You really won't know the full extent until next year when the next round of Orange Club donations are due. You will lose some season ticket holders, and there will be season ticket holders who reduce their donations to the absolute minimum. This has to be factored into the total cost of staging this event.

And if you think that Central New York is loaded with people/local businesses who are willing and able to make the minimum contributions required for the best preferred seats (not to mention people willing to donate thousands of dollars over and above the minimum), you would be wrong.

I just don't understand how this whole thing can be analyzed without knowing the plan...what if seating is substantially similar? What if gross gives everyone 50k each? What if SU makes Coach K coach without pants? Analyzing effects without knowing any of the facts is really strange imho

 

[rrlbees]

I just don't understand how this whole thing can be analyzed without knowing the plan...what if seating is substantially similar? What if gross gives everyone 50k each? What if SU makes Coach K coach without pants? Analyzing effects without knowing any of the facts is really strange imho

What if we know it is physically impossible to accommodate the preferred seating holders and still meet the intended goal of 45-50k or whatever it is?

Here's a link to the preferred seating plan. The people who pay an additional $225 - $725 (basketball only) more per seat and have been for years or even decades. Money that has already been paid as well as the season ticket money.

http://www.carrierdome.com/media/documents/2013/4/Basketball_Preferred_2013.pdf

Now visually move the court to midfield using any orientation you want. How do you accommodate all those people with the same angle, sight line and distance from the court? You can't. Some yes, many no.


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[OrangeXtreme]

I just don't understand how this whole thing can be analyzed without knowing the plan...what if seating is substantially similar?

According to information that has been posted in the other 2-3 threads ... the court will be placed at the 50 yard line, and there will be NO floor seating (except for 3 rows of courtside seats) and no temporary bleachers brought in.

The closest seats will be in the 100 level ... and will be at least 40 yards farther away from the court.

Proposed seating will not be similar.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Don't understand why anyone would be against this unless you feel like we would not fill the dome. That is my only fear.
I was at final four in a football stadium with 35k seats more than the carrier done. The atmosphere was great !! No clue why season tix holders think there seats would be so much worse.

That is my fear as well. I do not even think it is possible to get 50K for a basketball game.

 

[djcon57]

I just don't understand how this whole thing can be analyzed without knowing the plan...what if seating is substantially similar? What if gross gives everyone 50k each? What if SU makes Coach K coach without pants? Analyzing effects without knowing any of the facts is really strange imho

Thank you.
Saying "there will be blacklash" is comical

 

[Lawrinson14]

After we beat them we should storm the court, that would be the cherry to top this epic Sundae. Better yet, get Ithaca home of the Sundae to make the Worlds Largest Sundae the day of the game, have it shipped up to the dome. We will also need a Ferris wheel.

I can totally picture your avatar suggesting this.

 

[jgeorge322]

What if we know it is physically impossible to accommodate the preferred seating holders and still meet the intended goal of 45-50k or whatever it is?

Here's a link to the preferred seating plan. The people who pay an additional $225 - $725 (basketball only) more per seat and have been for years or even decades. Money that has already been paid as well as the season ticket money.

http://www.carrierdome.com/media/documents/2013/4/Basketball_Preferred_2013.pdf

Now visually move the court to midfield using any orientation you want. How do you accommodate all those people with the same angle, sight line and distance from the court? You can't. Some yes, many no.


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There should be a daubert standard on this board for allowing such posts. The admin is seemingly still investigating how to do this yet some posters already have conclusions on the number of season ticket holders can be reasonably accommodated.

 

[AZOrange]

According to information that has been posted in the other 2-3 threads ... the court will be placed at the 50 yard line, and there will be NO floor seating (except for 3 rows of courtside seats) and no temporary bleachers brought in.

The closest seats will be in the 100 level ... and will be at least 40 yards farther away from the court.

Proposed seating will not be similar.

But aren't those just guesses at this point? I haven't been able to find any articles where SU has said what seating will look like. Or that it's even a go. If there is one I'd love to see it.

 

[rrlbees]

There should be a daubert standard on this board for allowing such posts. The admin is seemingly still investigating how to do this yet some posters already have conclusions on the number of season ticket holders can be reasonably accommodated.

You don't need expert witnesses for something that is common sense. All you have to do is LOOK at the layout.


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[dollarbill44]

You know, the local government commissioned a study on the biggest obstacles to growth in Syracuse? The number one impediment: the negative attitude of the people in Syracuse.
So, rather than stepping out of our comfort zone for one HUGE event that would draw news beyond ESPN, and put Syracuse in a positive light, people piss and moan because its different.
1) Don't move to the Dome. You'll never get more than 10K fans
2) You can't put field turf in the Dome.
3) You'll never sell court side seats for $6,000.00 a piece. (Not to mention those seats interfered with the sight lines of prior season tickets holders.)
4) There is no benefit to claiming that SU is NY's college team or advertising in NYC.
5) SU can't compete in women's sports.

I am a fan of TGD's can do, should do, will do attitude.

I think a lot of the proponents of the plan are over-estimating the national significance of doing this.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

But aren't those just guesses at this point? I haven't been able to find any articles where SU has said what seating will look like. Or that it's even a go. If there is one I'd love to see it.

Very well educated guesses. From people who would know.

Gross said this in his radio interview with David Glenn:

But we are studying if we can move it to the center in order to see if we can maintain sight lines and all those types of things. We have a lot of meetings coming up before we confirm if we are going to do it one way or the other. There has been a lot of talk about it."

"We have some momentum to it, but we just want to be really, really smart about it if we are going to do it to make sure it doesn't turn out like, I don't know if you remember the Houston Astrodome when Elvin Hayes played against Lew Alcindor at the time. When you look at some of the footage for that, you don't see anybody near the court at all (laughs). It is an unusual experience. If we can make it good for the fans in a way that everyone can benefit from it, then we may try to do something real special like that.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2013/08/daryl_gross_acc_syracuse_baske.html

Maybe they come up with a modified plan after completing the study? Maybe they scrap the whole idea?

 

[llandz]

I am responding without reading all of the posts.

First of all there are big supporters of the program who are not season ticket holders and do not live in Syracuse. So doing this does not alienate all of your basketball program supporters, albeit a large amount.

What Joyce says makes a lot of sense. I especially agree with #5 and #6. Those are excellent points. My initial thought was that this was a really cool idea. But when we play Duke for the first time in the dome I don't want the players to lose that "home court" advantage. I never gave thought to the fact that this would do so. Shots sight lines would be all off, etc. Also I can totally understand the concept of bigger and larger are not necessarily noisier and more intimidating. I am from the Manley Zoo days. The dome does not equate the intensity of those days. Also go to a Rutgers game, and you will see what I mean. They play in a small venue and it is one of the most unfriendly and intimidating places I have ever watched a game. The crowd is so "in your face".

Jurrie also makes a very good point. When this is done, it needs to be more planned out, and everything presented before the season. I bet the season ticket holders will grumble a little, but I doubt they will not purchase their seats, or donate less money. They will just do the "Syracuse" grumble all winter because they have something new to complain about.

Also Matt (yeah AZcuse) made a good point when he points out that people don't even know for sure that their seats would be worse. A plan needs to be made. Maybe some seats will even be better. Also Atl mentions a potential plan where we just go up to about 40k seats. Maybe that is an option to look into.

I think this needs to happen at some point. Yes we get the most seats for a game, but Kentucky is not that far behind us, and we used to go back and forth with them. NO ONE will be able to do the 50k. It will put us on a map that no one can touch without using an outside venue. Some mentioned that this is being done to increase revenue. But it is really to put Syracuse basketball in a class all alone. It is so recruits think they will want to come to a program where maybe they will get to play once in their career in that environment. I also think you will bring in lots of alum from other parts of the country, since this is such a big event that so many will want to be a part of, and by doing that will pick up a number of new monetary supporters of the program, and all of this works toward building and perpetuating the Syracuse basketball brand.

I also want to thank Jason for reaching out to this forum, and once again showing that he is trying to connect with the base and get our opinion. He is an asset to our athletic department.

 

[AZOrange]

Very well educated guesses. From people who would know.

Gross said this in his radio interview with David Glenn:

But we are studying if we can move it to the center in order to see if we can maintain sight lines and all those types of things. We have a lot of meetings coming up before we confirm if we are going to do it one way or the other. There has been a lot of talk about it."

"We have some momentum to it, but we just want to be really, really smart about it if we are going to do it to make sure it doesn't turn out like, I don't know if you remember the Houston Astrodome when Elvin Hayes played against Lew Alcindor at the time. When you look at some of the footage for that, you don't see anybody near the court at all (laughs). It is an unusual experience. If we can make it good for the fans in a way that everyone can benefit from it, then we may try to do something real special like that.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2013/08/daryl_gross_acc_syracuse_baske.html

Maybe they come up with a modified plan after completing the study? Maybe they scrap the whole idea?

I mean that's about as balanced and well thought through statement that gross could give. And we have multiple posts about ticket holders getting screwed...

 

[dollarbill44]

As CuseFanATL alluded to, consider turning the court 90°, but don't place it in the middle of the Dome.
- pull the east end zone bleachers back 2 sections (back of bleachers reach section 129 instead of 101)
- invest in temporary, 1/3 pitch of current, bleachers : 6 sections worth and 12-15 yds deep instead of the current 2 sections of 5 yds
- create an "equivalency seating map" for the currently sold season ticket locations
- pre-announce the 1 or 2 games per year when the super-sized-seating configuration will be used
(Yes, this requires early conference & TV involvement...
these games need to be on Saturdays, either late afternoon or evening)

This would be the only way to do it without screwing the whole thing up, imo.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

For one game it's that big a deal?

Personally I have never walked around back there.

still lots of room, but @ both ends of the court.

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[Rocco]

Gross has said they will break the record against Duke. It's just a matter of how. I don't think the season ticket holders will get screwed because too many donor $$ would be pissed off. TGD will figure some ish out.

 

[dollarbill44]

Really? Im a 15 year season ticket holder and I love the idea. Your views seems very narrow sighted and adverse to change. If we do not progress, we wither and die. I could shoot holes in 6 of your 7 points, but I will not.

Are you really implying that if we don't move the court to midfield that the program is going to wither and die?

 

[AZOrange]

Gross has said they will break the record against Duke. It's just a matter of how. I don't think the season ticket holders will get screwed because too many donor $$ would be pissed off. TGD will figure some ish out.

I agree. How many things has gross goofed on in the last 5 years?

 

[Bill Orange]

Gross has said they will break the record against Duke. It's just a matter of how. I don't think the season ticket holders will get screwed because too many donor $$ would be pissed off. TGD will figure some ish out.

35,013 will break the record.

 

[SmilinBob]

Put the court on lifts and turn it 90 degrees after each 10 minute mark.