2018 NBA Draft Early Entry Thread

[Briancuse]

The problem is that's very close to the second round (non-guaranteed) and could easily be 39 or 49. There are LOTS of SG's potentially ahead of him. Just in the ACC, there is Walker (UM), Trent and Allen (Duh-k). There's also Bridges (Nova), that foreign shooter from Kansas (Mykhla...), Brown from Oregon, Martin from UNLV and a couple of Euros.

This is not the draft to be in if your a borderline guy its just so stacked. Part of the reason why I think he is having a tough time deciding.

 

[rrlbees]

This mock has bridges as a SG (#10). But i would agree with you that Battle's ceiling seems higher than Allen's (although Allen's a better shooter currently).
NBA Mock Draft 2018

I don’t know who hoops hype is. Givony has a lot of those kids as second rounders.

 

[reedny]

I don’t know who hoops hype is. Givony has a lot of those kids as second rounders.

I've given up trying to evaluate mock drafts.

 

[rrlbees]

I've given up trying to evaluate mock drafts.

No two are alike except the top 10 or so. I only look at Givony now because he seems to be the most knowledgeable and also has contact with nba scouts and gms.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[jncuse]

I think -- and I'm alone in the wilderness on this -- that draft position is not the end-all, be-all for these kids. If you can play, you're more than likely going to find an opportunity and at some point and you'll be ready to crush it. If you have significant holes I'm still not sold on the NBA fixing those holes and working with you on it. I'm not saying Battle or any kid *should* come back -- they should do whatever they think it the best thing to do. But I really wish more people pointed out that the G League -- even after something like 17 years -- is not a developmental league the way a baseball farm system is. If you end up there for an extended period of time, you're not likely to ever truly stick in the NBA.

This could change if the rules change and the NBA makes it a 30-team league and actually pumps some money into it. For now, though? My thought would be that a kid like Battle could spend the entire summer doing two things: shooting a bazillion jumpers a day and crushing the books. Get a degree (or pretty close to it) and try to improve range and consistency on the J and then make the move next year. But, I'm also not going to tell a kid not to pursue his dream, so in the end, I just hope it works out well for him either way.

The 59-22 Toronto Raptors would beg to differ that the G-League is not a key developmental tool.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is not the draft to be in if your a borderline guy its just so stacked. Part of the reason why I think he is having a tough time deciding.

Come on, man. There's never been a draft that you thought was the right year to be in.

 

[Briancuse]

Come on, man. There's never been a draft that you thought was the right year to be in.

This draft is loaded even you know that.

 

[billsin01]

The 59-22 Toronto Raptors would beg to differ that the G-League is not a key developmental tool.

Genuine question: How have they used it? Total games in the G League for players on the roster:

Delon Wright: 20 games over two seasons
Norman Powell: 8 games
Malachi: 29 games
Jakob Poeltl: 2 games
Pascal Siakam: 5 games
Van Vleet: 16 games
CJ Miles: 19 games
Alfonso McKinnie: 85 games

You could make an argument for McKinnie, but my point on the G League is that if you end up relegated there for a couple seasons, the writing is on the wall. I also really question of level of play in the league.

Now, having said that, if more guys start doing the Bazely and going straight to the G League AND all 30 teams invest in a team -- that would be a different story. Right now it's almost exclusively a place to stash some roster filler and/or put a guy for a brief stint b/c of a roster crunch of some sort.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Death, Taxes, and Briancuse criticizing our early entries/potential early entries. The certain things in life.

 

[reedny]

Come on, man. There's never been a draft that you thought was the right year to be in.

zzzzzz (nor is every year the right year).

 

[djcon57]

Genuine question: How have they used it? Total games in the G League for players on the roster:

Delon Wright: 20 games over two seasons
Norman Powell: 8 games
Malachi: 29 games
Jakob Poeltl: 2 games
Pascal Siakam: 5 games
Van Vleet: 16 games
CJ Miles: 19 games
Alfonso McKinnie: 85 games

You could make an argument for McKinnie, but my point on the G League is that if you end up relegated there for a couple seasons, the writing is on the wall. I also really question of level of play in the league.

Now, having said that, if more guys start doing the Bazely and going straight to the G League AND all 30 teams invest in a team -- that would be a different story. Right now it's almost exclusively a place to stash some roster filler and/or put a guy for a brief stint b/c of a roster crunch of some sort.

So which is it with Malachi and Lydon and others...some here act like they have been banished to a life of busses in Grand Rapids yet here you say "hey it's only 29 games" and I'm cool with that. But it can't be both

 

[OttoinGrotto]

zzzzzz (nor is every year the right year).

It is though.

 

[billsin01]

So which is it with Malachi and Lydon and others...some here act like they have been banished to a life of busses in Grand Rapids yet here you say "hey it's only 29 games" and I'm cool with that. But it can't be both

Maybe it's a matter of phrasing for some of these guys. Lydon has only played 15 G League games ... but he's only played in one NBA game. So I"m not sure how to classify it -- it's almost like he's just in purgatory or something. Not sure if that's due to injury or not but it doesn't seem like a great spot (and by the way, I had zero problem with him leaving and absolutely am rooting for him to kill it).

Richardson is sort of in the same spot. He does have appearances in 48 NBA games but he's logged a total of 522 minutes in two seasons. He's played well in the G League to a large extent but that's 29 total games as well so I don't know how you'd classify him either.

My only thing with guys leaving early, as I've stated many times, is that it may not always be the best path to development. Yes, you get the checks and there's not a whole lot any of us can argue with when it comes to a 7 figure salary. But the goal is to make this thing a career and when you aren't a freak athlete (Grant) or don't have a truly elite skill (a shooter for example) it can be really hard to get a chance to develop while on the floor.

So not sure if I answered the question at all, but I just think it can be tough to carve out a true NBA career (I'm not talking Melo level, but like a Jason Hart or Etan Thomas or Wes Johnson) if you're not truly ready to play when you get there. Grant can do it b/c he's a physical specimen but guys like Ennis and Richardson are a dime a dozen at that level.

Of course, having said that, I'd acknowledge that returning to college offers zero guarantees either. Battle is an interesting guy if he could polish off a degree (or get really close) with a third year and work hard on his game, he could theoretically benefit on both fronts. No one could blame him for going if he really is a late first-round guy, but it makes for an interesting decision, I think.

 

[djcon57]

Maybe it's a matter of phrasing for some of these guys. Lydon has only played 15 G League games ... but he's only played in one NBA game. So I"m not sure how to classify it -- it's almost like he's just in purgatory or something. Not sure if that's due to injury or not but it doesn't seem like a great spot (and by the way, I had zero problem with him leaving and absolutely am rooting for him to kill it).

Richardson is sort of in the same spot. He does have appearances in 48 NBA games but he's logged a total of 522 minutes in two seasons. He's played well in the G League to a large extent but that's 29 total games as well so I don't know how you'd classify him either.

My only thing with guys leaving early, as I've stated many times, is that it may not always be the best path to development. Yes, you get the checks and there's not a whole lot any of us can argue with when it comes to a 7 figure salary. But the goal is to make this thing a career and when you aren't a freak athlete (Grant) or don't have a truly elite skill (a shooter for example) it can be really hard to get a chance to develop while on the floor.

So not sure if I answered the question at all, but I just think it can be tough to carve out a true NBA career (I'm not talking Melo level, but like a Jason Hart or Etan Thomas or Wes Johnson) if you're not truly ready to play when you get there. Grant can do it b/c he's a physical specimen but guys like Ennis and Richardson are a dime a dozen at that level.

Of course, having said that, I'd acknowledge that returning to college offers zero guarantees either. Battle is an interesting guy if he could polish off a degree (or get really close) with a third year and work hard on his game, he could theoretically benefit on both fronts. No one could blame him for going if he really is a late first-round guy, but it makes for an interesting decision, I think.

I kind of get what you are saying and I absolutely agree Ennis and Richardson are done a dozen. But I'm shocked Ennis has hung on this long and honestly I think he's only in the spot he is in because he left early.

I guess my point which I didn't articulate well in the first post is...I agree with the point that if you are in the g league long term you are probably toast. CJ Fair or Arinze being examples. But I don't think it's fair to point to guys first or second years in the G league as a negative. It happens to the majority of players in the league.

 

[billsin01]

I kind of get what you are saying and I absolutely agree Ennis and Richardson are done a dozen. But I'm shocked Ennis has hung on this long and honestly I think he's only in the spot he is in because he left early.

I guess my point which I didn't articulate well in the first post is...I agree with the point that if you are in the g league long term you are probably toast. CJ Fair or Arinze being examples. But I don't think it's fair to point to guys first or second years in the G league as a negative. It happens to the majority of players in the league.

I don't disagree on either point -- Ennis leaving when he did included. Ennis had to go. It hurt us, but it was a good call for him, which is obviously more important.

However, I think we actually are talking about slightly different points. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see the G League as developmental at this point. That doesn't mean your career is over if you end up there for a few stints especially as a young player. I'd even agree that it at least appears the NBA is leaning toward making it's G League model more of a true developmental league in terms of addressing the one-and-done issue.

Where I disagree with many here -- and where we may disagree -- is that I don't know that the NBA is currently structured to develop talent. Therefore I tend to feel like it's in your best interest -- long-term -- to make sure you are as prepared as possible before going to the league. Just to clarify here, if Battle wants to go, it's all good. If Lydon or Malachi want to go, it's all good. Also, important to note, it's not like coming back to college guarantees you anything and I think we can all agree in most cases isn't likely to improve your draft position.

But my point is that I think there's a reason that guys who may not be truly elite-level physical athletes -- think Brogdon, Josh Hart, even Draymond to an extent, Hibbert, Danny Green (even our program has seen a bit of it with Jason Hart, Etan, Wes as a fourth year guy -- have seen some success entering at later ages. I think it's because they are better basketball players when they get there and are better prepared to take advantage of opportunities when they come along.

So it's not the *right* decision to stay for, let's say, Battle. But I disagree with the notion that it is inherently the best financial and developmental decision long-term, especially if you're a player that likely will need to have a real job when your playing days are through. To be clear, I'm not entirely sure there is a *right* decision for these guys and I don't blame them for going at the first truly good opportunity. I'm simply saying the narrative that you don't have to study and you play against the pros, ergo you become a better player, is really not a true narrative.

 

[djcon57]

I don't disagree on either point -- Ennis leaving when he did included. Ennis had to go. It hurt us, but it was a good call for him, which is obviously more important.

However, I think we actually are talking about slightly different points. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see the G League as developmental at this point. That doesn't mean your career is over if you end up there for a few stints especially as a young player. I'd even agree that it at least appears the NBA is leaning toward making it's G League model more of a true developmental league in terms of addressing the one-and-done issue.

Where I disagree with many here -- and where we may disagree -- is that I don't know that the NBA is currently structured to develop talent. Therefore I tend to feel like it's in your best interest -- long-term -- to make sure you are as prepared as possible before going to the league. Just to clarify here, if Battle wants to go, it's all good. If Lydon or Malachi want to go, it's all good. Also, important to note, it's not like coming back to college guarantees you anything and I think we can all agree in most cases isn't likely to improve your draft position.

But my point is that I think there's a reason that guys who may not be truly elite-level physical athletes -- think Brogdon, Josh Hart, even Draymond to an extent, Hibbert, Danny Green (even our program has seen a bit of it with Jason Hart, Etan, Wes as a fourth year guy -- have seen some success entering at later ages. I think it's because they are better basketball players when they get there and are better prepared to take advantage of opportunities when they come along.

So it's not the *right* decision to stay for, let's say, Battle. But I disagree with the notion that it is inherently the best financial and developmental decision long-term, especially if you're a player that likely will need to have a real job when your playing days are through. To be clear, I'm not entirely sure there is a *right* decision for these guys and I don't blame them for going at the first truly good opportunity. I'm simply saying the narrative that you don't have to study and you play against the pros, ergo you become a better player, is really a true narrative.

I agree with basically the whole point. I think a guy like Hart or Brogdon needed the 4 years, I agree.

Yet I see a guy like Brice Johnson or Payne or even our own Fair or Gbinije could have stayed for 14 years and they still wouldn't be nba caliber (according to the powers that be in the NBA)

Agreed that it's about making the most with your "shot". I worry that the shot is gone the longer the player stays.

 

[Briancuse]

Death, Taxes, and Briancuse criticizing our early entries/potential early entries. The certain things in life.

I didn't criticize anyone leaving early this year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I didn't criticize anyone leaving early this year.

Had Oshae left you would have melted down like Virginia in the NCAA tournament.

 

[bdstwin]

Had Oshae left you would have melted down like Virginia in the NCAA tournament.

the whole board would have

 

[Briancuse]

Had Oshae left you would have melted down like Virginia in the NCAA tournament.

Of course he prob wouldn't have been drafted.

 

[MSOrange]

I didn't criticize anyone leaving early this year.

Nobody has as of yet, my friend.

 

[billsin01]

I agree with basically the whole point. I think a guy like Hart or Brogdon needed the 4 years, I agree.

Yet I see a guy like Brice Johnson or Payne or even our own Fair or Gbinije could have stayed for 14 years and they still wouldn't be nba caliber (according to the powers that be in the NBA)

Agreed that it's about making the most with your "shot". I worry that the shot is gone the longer the player stays.

I think the players worry about exactly what you worry about and it makes sense. I fully admit that if someone is waving a couple mill in front of me I'd have a tough time saying "nah, I'm cool playing college ball." That's why I really don't have any negative feelings about guys doing what they feel they need to do.

For most players, IMO, the idea is to somehow find a way to carve out a niche that allows them to play for 8-10 years. There are the Carmelos and Stephs, of course, and there are a lot of guys who simply aren't going to get a shot like Scoop or Cooney, etc. But there is a big group that just needs some refinement to potential bring value.

Today, those guys often end up grabbing a quick contract potentially before they are ready and then ending up in purgatory to a large extent.

What would be ideal is if the NBA developed a more robust junior league that the franchises are actually invested in and then when they spot a talent they want to take a shot at, they draft them and offer a signing bonus and contract and then the player decides. Like baseball. That way if you go early -- or too early (maybe even straight from high school) -- you are going to a situation where a team sees something it likes and at least for a few years tries to work to develop you in a real league that plays at a level truly higher than that of college ball.

Right now I don't think that exists and it makes it a tough decision b/c there is a lot of life left after these guys' playing days are over (obviously).

 

[Deano]

In another shocker -

 

[Deano]

Thought this was pretty interesting -